Difference between the Campaign and Battle series?

[Jackal]

Hello,
Yesterday I played the Battles Demo, and enjoyed it a lot. Of course, I scratched only 1% of what's on the plate, but right now I am still perplexed - what's the essential difference between the Campaign and Battle series?

I noticed some little (and welcome) differences in functionality, but, unless it's much more detailed on the tactical level, wouldn't be more optimal to combine these two series?

And there are only few titles in the Campaign series, why is that? Are there any plans to add new games there?

[unonimus]

For differences, you can check the last two pages of the User Manual (user.pdf). There are some changes from that (e.g. Alternative Assault Resolution and strength recovery is now in the game), but most of them still hold true.

[Jackal]

For differences, you can check the last two pages of the User Manual (user.pdf). There are some changes from that (e.g. Alternative Assault Resolution and strength recovery is now in the game), but most of them still hold true.

Thank you for the advice!

[LordDeadwood]

Hello,
Yesterday I played the Battles Demo, and enjoyed it a lot. Of course, I scratched only 1% of what's on the plate, but right now I am still perplexed - what's the essential difference between the Campaign and Battle series?

I noticed some little (and welcome) differences in functionality, but, unless it's much more detailed on the tactical level, wouldn't be more optimal to combine these two series?

And there are only few titles in the Campaign series, why is that? Are there any plans to add new games there?

When you say "Campaign" series, are you referring to the JT Campaign Series? Or Panzer Campaigns?

[Jackal]

When you say "Campaign" series, are you referring to the JT Campaign Series? Or Panzer Campaigns?

My apologies - I should have made clear it's all about "Panzer"

[rahamy]

Scale:

Panzer Campaigns - The game scale is 1 km hexes and 2 hour turns. Units are normally at the company and battalion level.

Panzer Battles - Panzer Battle wargames fit in scale between Squad Battles and Panzer Campaigns, having 250 meter hexes, 1 turn equal to 30 minutes, and platoon units. Panzer Battle wargames are designed to focus on tank battle and ranged fire.

Squad Battles - The game scale is 40 meter hexes and 5 minute turns. Units are normally at the squad and single vehicle level.

[Llaird]

IMHO, Panzer Battles is the updated, modernized and more detailed version of John's original Campaign series (East Front, West Front), orginally published by Talonsoft...

[LordDeadwood]

When you say "Campaign" series, are you referring to the JT Campaign Series? Or Panzer Campaigns?

My apologies - I should have made clear it's all about "Panzer"

I noticed some little (and welcome) differences in functionality, but, unless it's much more detailed on the tactical level, wouldn't be more optimal to combine these two series?

And there are only few titles in the Campaign series, why is that? Are there any plans to add new games there?

This is why I asked. I can't imagine "combining" the two series, as they are substantially different in scale as Rich pointed out. And there are over thirty titles in the Panzer Campaign series with more under development. Although there are only three titles (plus the Demo) in the PzB series, there is a new title in development there as well. The two series complement each other, they are not two branches of the same bush!

[Jackal]

Scale: <..>

Within wargames often the "scale" is a relative rule - with all maps and units virtually being the same you can set different "scales" (and scenarios) using the same engine. It makes sense, because we play on a highly abstract level.

IMHO, Panzer Battles is the updated, modernized and more detailed version of John's original Campaign series (East Front, West Front), orginally published by Talonsoft...

All is well and good, but the result ended up being very similar - that's why I asked about a single engine

<..> there is a new title in development there as well. The two series complement each other, they are not two branches of the same bush!

Hmm, I imagine that those two "bushes" differ rather ideologically (one being JT, another - WDS), but not that much technically now. But I understand that redoing dozens of scenarios is not sensible

I dunno... I am not trying to argue or convince someone with something, I just want to dig into this a bit

[Strela]

Hi Jackal,

I'm the guy who is reponsible for the three released Panzer Battles titles and the Demo. I am also working on the next title(s) in the series.

Panzer Battles is actually a mix of the both the Panzer Campaigns and Squad Battles engines. It is NOT a 'small version' of Panzer Campaigns. There is much more granularity in units and what they can and cannot do.

If you have not read them, have a look at the blog posts listed below. You will see this is clearly different to Panzer Campaigns and that there is both a different feel and focus. We have found that Panzer Battles is very popular with the community as it has the variety of units that Squad Battles has, but a larger scope in actions and operations than that series. In the first blog post, that discusses battalion operations, you will see how much is abstracted in Panzer Campaigns vs Panzer Battles.

The hardest thing in actually creating Panzer Battles titles is getting information at this scale to create scenarios. It is above 'first-person' and below the 'operational' that many historians report on. That said, it is a level with little abstraction.

As mentioned , have a look at the following:

North Africa 1941 Blog Post, covering battalion operations: https://wargameds.com/blogs/news/battli ... obruk-full

North Africa 1941 Visual Order of Battle to understand the structure of units: https://files.wargamedesignstudio.com/i ... AR4ydxpHzB

An After Action Report from Battles of Moscow with a comparison to Panzer Campaigns: https://wargameds.com/blogs/news/panzer ... ion-report

Hopefully you can see the difference in scale and impact this has on play between the Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns despite having similar engines. Trust me they play very differently...