S Trauth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:42 pm
No - you wouldn't code them as lancers; the primary function would be on foot, just like your dragoon example; to be fair though, I think I'd seen mention of it first (and maybe only) -European Weapons and Warfare 1618 - 1648 -which I think was from at least the 1970's when it was first published.
I never saw any mention of them in orders of battle or mention of use of them in battle, so I expect if it did happen at all, it would have been in the earlier portion of the war, and probably from some of the German states -if it happened at all. I expect it didn't work all that well, and they disappeared entirely. And I don't claim to be an expert on mounted pike dragoon types - just meant I saw it in passing on the above book's section on mounted troops.
The Swedish style, even was adopted by Wallenstein, with the lighter, more mobile artillery as well -so yes, there was a lot of tactical evolution during that period; technically the 17th Century as a whole as I think the bayonet got introduced near the end of the 17th century - which began making the need for massed pike formations redundant.
Didn't mean they were used as lancers, but rather that they could hve been in a pinch if the pikes had been short enough. Sorry if I was unclear.
But I agree with you, if dragoons ever carried pikes I'm also pretty sure it must have been in the early days of the war and more or less just on a trial basis or out of some sort or extreme necessity were regular pikemen hat to mount up to get somewere quickly.
Considering the lenght of the average infantry pike of the day it would have been extremely unpractical, if not impossible, to carry such a weapon on horseback. So I assume any army or unit that tried giving such pikes to dragoons or mounting regular infantry pikemen must have found out very quickly that it was not worth the effort.
With a shorter weapon, the size of a lance or longer spear, sure, it could have been done off course.
Yes, the Swedish regimental guns are pretty famous. What buggers me though is how much the so called leather cannons gets attention! especially in wargaming circles. They were only manufacturd in a very small number and only used on a trial basis. And this was done during the war in Poland before Sweden entered the 30 Years War in 1630. These leather cannons were quickly proven to be a failure not worth while persuing any further. However those that had been manufacturd and had reached the army was kept in service until they were worn out or lost. It's possible that one or two might have survived to go with the Swedish army to Germany in 1630-31 but I highly doubt it.
Technologically speaking they were an interesting but failed attempt to create an early form of light and mobile artillery. But as a piece of military hardware on the battlefield they were nothing but a side note barely worth mentioning. But still they keep getting attention in popular media and wargaming circles.