Optional changes is the key.
UI Improvement Ideas
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Let me clarify with what I am in agreement,
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Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Just two cents from someone who's played Tiller Games for almost 30 years now.
redrum68 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:50 am ...
1. Unit selection - Change single click on a hex to select either the top unit or all units and double click to do whichever single click doesn't. Having to double click every time to select units is just painful and unnecessary. Sounds more confusing than current system to me.
2. Unit movement - It would be good to completely revamp the way this UI works to align closer to other modern wargames. When I select unit(s) I should always see where they can move to and when I mouse over a hex to move to it should show the path the unit(s) will take to that location. ....Current system is more realistic to me, units often failed to co-ordinate attacks.
3. Road limits - While I like the concept of having road limits for unit movement, they end up just causing lots of painful micromanagement as you try to move large formations over large distances especially when many units have different MPs (PzB for example). This probably needs completely reworked but in the short term, turning road limits to be off by default and making it just an optional rule would make games more enjoyable to play. I realize this could cause some balance issues for existing scenarios but IMO the improved playability would outweigh them.Stacking limits generally are set for the number of troops that can be deployed in a hex, roads are not that wide, as ex. in CWB you could theoretically fit 1000 men in a 125 yard hex deployed in 3-4 two man lines. In 4 man wide road column less than 500 men would fill the road leaving enough space for riders to travel in both directions. Standard road formation in WWII was 25 M between vehicles.
4. Assaults - Selecting units for assaults and then executing it just feels odd. Most games I've played instead just allow you to CTRL select units from multiple adjacent hexes and then click on the hex to assault. This is much more natural and faster than the way it works currently. In most of the games CTRL is used to toggle Fire/Move mode.
5. Travel mode - Allow travel mode to be toggled back and forth so a player can see the difference in movement range without losing MP each time. Essentially if the unit isn't moved or within opportunity fire range after travel mode is changed then changing it back should refund or not cost any MP. Example is I have a towed artillery in normal mode which I'm considering moving forward so I toggle to travel mode but realize I can't really move it very far this turn so decide I'd rather leave it in place and want to toggle it back to normal mode, it should still have all its starting MP as it didn't move or wasn't fired on. UNDO not possible with FoW on, you need to pick one or the other.
6. Hotkeys - Make hotkeys as consistent as possible across titles. PzB for example has lots of hotkeys but they are completely different than PzC so going from one to the other is really difficult. Things like AutoHotkey can help a bit in the meantime but for complex games, good and consistent hotkeys are crucial. Don't use hotkeys much myself but this one does make sense.
7. Show unit's HQ - viewtopic.php?t=172 This one I would also like to see although I do my best to keep my units together occasionally things get confusing especially when on the defensive.
8. Fire/assault results - It would be great to see more detail added to the fire/assault dialog so its clear what factors are impacting the results. It would also be great to have a log file or summary showing all the results especially for the opponents turn as sitting through an entire opponents turn replay for large scenarios often takes a really long time where most players just want to see a summary of what happened.If you're learning the game turn off On Map Results and FoW and you get a Dialog showing Combat Results including information on strength and modifiers. It does require clicking OK button to close the dialog though, that was why On Map Results were added.
Additional suggestions and feedback welcome!
Ken Miller
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
I particularly like the suggestion to have movement costs and path revealed before committing to a move.
I'll add just one from my wishlist. Enhance the Show Organization dialog so that it shows the full OOB down to the unit level, not just orgs, and have the map scroll to the pertinent location when selecting an entry. This should be very helpful in finding units, orgs, leaders, etc.
I'll add just one from my wishlist. Enhance the Show Organization dialog so that it shows the full OOB down to the unit level, not just orgs, and have the map scroll to the pertinent location when selecting an entry. This should be very helpful in finding units, orgs, leaders, etc.
WDS Support
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Adding on to @Xerxes77's comment, Show Organization definitely needs enhancing in some way, shape or form to make it easier for the player to correlate the OOB/Leaders with what is on paper to what is on the map. Understanding that you've barely had the source code for a minute, you need some time to do this. I, myself, am willing to wait if the time is used constructing a nice UI.
<joke mode ON> So, we can expect a completely reworked UI by September 1st??? <joke mode OFF>
<joke mode ON> So, we can expect a completely reworked UI by September 1st??? <joke mode OFF>
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Re: UI Improvement Ideas
That's a great list of ideas. Must say, I have 2 of these games and really like the underlying game design. However, I won't be buying any more while the User Interface remains as clunky and cumbersome as it is currently. It just makes anything beyond small scenarios far more awkward than they need be.
Also, it would obviously be best to add an optional switch between new and old interface. However, if you don't like the changes, you still have the current versions and can play them forever. Nobody is taking them away. For the long term, we need to encourage new gamers to the niche and you won't do that with interfaces so far behind the times. FWIW I'm over 60, so not some hip young dude wanting flashy 3D graphics! I just want the UI to help with the strategy, not make it ten times worse.
One addition, something that strikes me as odd about all the WDS/John Tiller games - the counters have no indication of unit strength. I can't think of one other hex and counter game ever, that doesn't have a number giving at least some indication of unit strength. Surely, it's a key part of any wargame, scanning the map, seeing where you have power and where you lack? In these games, you have to click on every single unit to see it, every single turn. Again, adds tedium and confusion to anything other than the smallest scenarios.
Also, it would obviously be best to add an optional switch between new and old interface. However, if you don't like the changes, you still have the current versions and can play them forever. Nobody is taking them away. For the long term, we need to encourage new gamers to the niche and you won't do that with interfaces so far behind the times. FWIW I'm over 60, so not some hip young dude wanting flashy 3D graphics! I just want the UI to help with the strategy, not make it ten times worse.
One addition, something that strikes me as odd about all the WDS/John Tiller games - the counters have no indication of unit strength. I can't think of one other hex and counter game ever, that doesn't have a number giving at least some indication of unit strength. Surely, it's a key part of any wargame, scanning the map, seeing where you have power and where you lack? In these games, you have to click on every single unit to see it, every single turn. Again, adds tedium and confusion to anything other than the smallest scenarios.
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Yes! one of the reasons I like the 3D view in PzC is that the counters include some essential info at a glance.RebelParrot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:11 am One addition, something that strikes me as odd about all the WDS/John Tiller games - the counters have no indication of unit strength. I can't think of one other hex and counter game ever, that doesn't have a number giving at least some indication of unit strength. Surely, it's a key part of any wargame, scanning the map, seeing where you have power and where you lack? In these games, you have to click on every single unit to see it, every single turn.
I understand the engine does not support displaying text on the counters in 2D mode, and then many folks enjoy the uncluttered look. My fallback improvement suggestion in this area would be adding an optional hotkey that shows the amount of strength stacked in each hex. Could be just a total number, similar to the way local supply values are shown currently, or a small graphical "thermometer".
WDS Support
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Very good suggestion, I've added it to the first post. Totally agree that having some basic unit strength information on the 2D counters would be very helpful and almost all other hex wargames do that.RebelParrot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:11 am One addition, something that strikes me as odd about all the WDS/John Tiller games - the counters have no indication of unit strength. I can't think of one other hex and counter game ever, that doesn't have a number giving at least some indication of unit strength. Surely, it's a key part of any wargame, scanning the map, seeing where you have power and where you lack? In these games, you have to click on every single unit to see it, every single turn. Again, adds tedium and confusion to anything other than the smallest scenarios.
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Added this to the first post as well as I agree it would make it much more useful.Xerxes77 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:50 am I'll add just one from my wishlist. Enhance the Show Organization dialog so that it shows the full OOB down to the unit level, not just orgs, and have the map scroll to the pertinent location when selecting an entry. This should be very helpful in finding units, orgs, leaders, etc.
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
That exists in PzC & PzB where pressing tab will show the back of the unit card and the stacking points in the hex details. It is also in Strategic War where you can select strengths and it shows on the counters. In fact it appears nearly every series shows the strengths/stacking value in the hex details in the information bar.Xerxes77 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:59 amYes! one of the reasons I like the 3D view in PzC is that the counters include some essential info at a glance.RebelParrot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:11 am One addition, something that strikes me as odd about all the WDS/John Tiller games - the counters have no indication of unit strength. I can't think of one other hex and counter game ever, that doesn't have a number giving at least some indication of unit strength. Surely, it's a key part of any wargame, scanning the map, seeing where you have power and where you lack? In these games, you have to click on every single unit to see it, every single turn.
I understand the engine does not support displaying text on the counters in 2D mode, and then many folks enjoy the uncluttered look. My fallback improvement suggestion in this area would be adding an optional hotkey that shows the amount of strength stacked in each hex. Could be just a total number, similar to the way local supply values are shown currently, or a small graphical "thermometer".
Re: UI Improvement Ideas
Another feature that I think is often overlooked is "Roaming Mode" while in the game hit the R key and you can then glide around the map, and as you rest the mouse on a hex those details are displayed...this allows you to view the details of an entire line for example without any mouse clicks.
Rich Hamilton
WDS Operations Manager
WDS Operations Manager