What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Sinai/Palestine, from the Turkish attacks on the Suez through to the Fall of Damascus.
- Verdun1916
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Western front 1915: including the bloody fighting in the Argonne, Les Éparges (which included mine warfare), Tranchée la Calonne, St.Mihiel salient.
And off course Verdun 1916.
Western front 1918 with both the German Spring offensives and the Entente counter-offensives.
And off course Verdun 1916.
Western front 1918 with both the German Spring offensives and the Entente counter-offensives.
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Must confess, I think Verdun might not be that entertaining a game. Agree, the Squad Battles series might be better suited.
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Just out of curiosity, how come you think it might not be entertaining as a game?Alan Sharif wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:39 pm Must confess, I think Verdun might not be that entertaining a game. Agree, the Squad Battles series might be better suited.
But I do agree that Verdun needs ALOT more attention in the Squad Battle series! I was very disappointed when I purchased SB First World War and it only contained one single Verdun scenario.
Personally Verdun would be the ultimate game for me in this series of games. As long as it's based on good facts and not myths and some of the crap errors you find in many English written sources.
Granted, I'm bias since I've been studying the Verdun battle, or battles rather, and visited the battlefield and it's fortifications for more than 30 years. But I do see potential for it as a game in this series. Or atleast represented in a wider set title for the Western Front in 1916.
Verdun also has potential for several interesting what if-scenarios aswell.
Cheers
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
I based my statement on the scale of the titles in the series. I don't like scenarios where there is a high unit count and little movement. I suspect Verdun, or parts of it, would play out very much like this. I'd still purchase the game, but it would not be one I was as keen to see as many other potential titles. IMO, Squad Battles would create the illusion of greater movement, and the tactical element would add more interest for many. That said, your assertion that this would make an interesting title is very persuasive, and you clearly know far more about the subject than I do.
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Well in that case I can understand what you mean. Verdun would of course not be as much movement as 1914. Larger movements would be confines of the opening week when the Germans had victory in their hans but squandered it, the opening fases of the German attacks on Le Mort-Homme and Hill 304 aswell as the latter stages during the French counter-offensive to reclaim Fort de Douaumont and beyond. Aswell during the French 1917 offensives at to retake Le Mort-Homme, Hill 304 and Hill 344 off course. For the rest movement would be more restricted on this game scale and yes high troop numbers would off course be a fact. But on the other hand with clever use of ones infantry, artillery and the terrian it would pose a good challenge and mobility not completely out the window. A challenge that might be liked by some while hated by others would be the need to relieve ones front line units effectively to a larger degree than needed in any other Campaign series game.Alan Sharif wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:42 am I based my statement on the scale of the titles in the series. I don't like scenarios where there is a high unit count and little movement. I suspect Verdun, or parts of it, would play out very much like this. I'd still purchase the game, but it would not be one I was as keen to see as many other potential titles. IMO, Squad Battles would create the illusion of greater movement, and the tactical element would add more interest for many. That said, your assertion that this would make an interesting title is very persuasive, and you clearly know far more about the subject than I do.
But yes, in some ways SB First World War might have better potential to reprsent certain aspects of Verdun. The issue with that title though is how to represent the forts and ouvrages, and their role, in a good way. The forts are already represented in the First World War campaign series, aswell as their specialized artillery in the shape of armoured gun turrets aswell as the German siege artillery that battered them.
Maybe a new game series covering the First World War on a similar scale to that in the Panzer Battle series would be better suited to represent battles like Verdun, the Somme and others. But with a 3D view like in the First World War campaign series (I hate playing in 2D personally). To get the best out of both worlds of the Campaign series aswell as the Squad Battle series.
Cheers!
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
I think for the "cannon fodder" battles like Verdun, being battles at strategic level... i think the smaller levell is regimental or brigade with turns day by day or even weeks, apart with a rework in recover casualties to made players can reinforce units as they need.
PzB scale in WWI.... ufff to low for my taste, true you can cover small actions but we have SB and battalion-regiment actions... yes but they represent less the type of battle.
I think to in FWWI if someday we see middle east, here we can see battalions with company level detail... and even in smaller actions see the PzB scale... but i see this with very low unit density, not the European trench line battles.
PzB scale in WWI.... ufff to low for my taste, true you can cover small actions but we have SB and battalion-regiment actions... yes but they represent less the type of battle.
I think to in FWWI if someday we see middle east, here we can see battalions with company level detail... and even in smaller actions see the PzB scale... but i see this with very low unit density, not the European trench line battles.
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Though it was only in late 1914 and early 1915 that you had trenches packed to the brim with soldiers on the Western Front.Squadman45 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:50 am ... but i see this with very low unit density, not the European trench line battles.
From mid to late 1915 and onwards the number of men manning the trenches became ever smaller. And from mid 1916 and onwards
defense in depth with sparcely held trench lines and intermediary positions (like MG positions, trench gun positions and mortar positions) in between the trench lines became more and more common on both sides of the front line. Trench sections that had previously been held by an entire batallion in late 1914 were held by as little as a platoon by late 1917 and early 1918.
Massive human wave attacks like seen in 1914 and 1915 was beeing replaced by what would later become known as Stosstrupp Taktik by the Germans at the outsett of the battle of Verdun. And the French, Brittish and Commonwealth learned and copied from the Germans extremely fast and developed their own versions off it almost as fast, especially the French. The British was a bit slower accepting such tactics. And the result there of showed itself on 1 July 1916 on the Somme when the vast majority of the British batallions marched slowely almost shoulder to shoulder towards the German machineguns while the French on the other hand saw great success with low casualites on the southern Somme sector on that day.
It is true that Verdun was more cramped than most other 1916 or later battlefields. But that had more to due with the small geographical areas, it's perticular terrain and how the front line twisted and turned in said area in which the battle was fought, in comparison to battles like the Somme for example. The same factor that made Verdun more of a slaughter house experience for whose who fought there compard to mosth other battles on the Western Front.
Another factor for any batallion scale game or larger that might need special attention in a game about Verdun is the fact that the Germans and the French had vastly different relieving systems. The French sent their infantry batallion into the frontline for approxamately 4-6 days before they were completely relieved and brought back to rest areas well behind the front to rest, refit and reorganize. They were then (usually) sent to a quiter sector of the front for a while before returning to Verdun for another visit to the meat grinder. The Germans on the other hand kept their batallions, regiments, brigades and divisions in the front line at Verdun until they had taken such high losses that they could no longer opperate as effective fighting forces. It meant that some German units spent weeks and even months at the Verdun front before beeing relieved and brought back to the rear for a rest and refit. During their front line stay fresh meat in the shape of replacements were brought forward to fill the ever more thinned ranks of the front line units.
So to sum up, French infantry batallions, brigades and divisions spent a short time at Verdun but was likely to be sent back for a second, third or even a forth Verdun deployment. While the German batallions brigades and divisions saw a MUCH longer stay in the front line during which their only rest would be for a day or two in a feldlager in one of the many ravines right behind the front line in a best case scenario, before beeing relieved and brought back from the front and the range of the enemy artillery. And during their spell in the front line the casualites would be replaced by replacements brought up from the depos in Germany directly to the front line. The French had a higher turnover of units while the Germans had a higher turnover of individual soldiers at Verdun. And because of this a far larger portion of all French divisions saw combat at Verdun. For the Germans a smaller portion off all their divisions fought at Verdun, but those that did had a massive number of men serve in them over the course of the battle who constantly had to be replaced many times over as losses continued to mount.
So, maybe not the easiest thing to replicate in a game setting no matter the scale. For the French it would mean new formation would need to arrive on map as reinforcement while others would have to be removed from the map after a certain amount of time. On the German side there would have to be less units arriving as reinforcements and those on map would have to get a constant flow of replacements.
Or this piece of historical accuracy would simply have to be left out for something more suitable for the existing game engines.
Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
That’s a very interesting observation. The beauty of the ‘campaign titles’ is that as a designer I could emulate the situation you mention of unit turnover vs in unit replacements.
I would have overlapping reinforcements vs withdrawals for the French, so that new units would arrive knowing that a particular unit was going to withdraw in a few turns and could be replaced. For the Germans I would give a much higher replacement rate allowing a constant infusion of new troops. One of the nice features Ed introduced for FWWC was the ability to vary replacement rates down to individual units, so that may play a part too.
So in summary, armed with this knowledge it could be emulated in game. The nice thing is you would see an interesting ebb and flow for both sides based upon the different approach.
I would have overlapping reinforcements vs withdrawals for the French, so that new units would arrive knowing that a particular unit was going to withdraw in a few turns and could be replaced. For the Germans I would give a much higher replacement rate allowing a constant infusion of new troops. One of the nice features Ed introduced for FWWC was the ability to vary replacement rates down to individual units, so that may play a part too.
So in summary, armed with this knowledge it could be emulated in game. The nice thing is you would see an interesting ebb and flow for both sides based upon the different approach.
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Re: What Future Titles Would You Like To See?
Loving these posts on Verdun. Not just a great read, but informative too.